Posts by Max Divergent

38

Creation vs Evolution? or Creation and Evolution?

by azaria in

i believe this has been touched on in an earlier post but thought id start my own.

i know that im going out on a limb here.

a number of times ive hesitated before submitting a post or response.

Max Divergent

I don't think evolution disproves the existance of god.

It certainly disproves literal applications of Genisis and the Jehovah style God as a truthteller via the bible - but both those things are already thoroughly discredited anyhow. If someone belives in that, it's not for want of proof it's not an accurate explantion of the universe.

All evolution really does is open up the spiritual quest to broarder and deeper thought and investigation with more accurate information about the origin of life and the universe than the Jehovah/Jesus/bible idea allows for.

Maybe 'god' is out there but of a very, very different nature to what people's religions tell us 'he' is.

I say that becuase it's hard to see the difference between what enlightend religionists and athiest scientists say sometimes once you get past the 'I [do/don't] believe in some sort of a god' banner statement.

Max

38

Creation vs Evolution? or Creation and Evolution?

by azaria in

i believe this has been touched on in an earlier post but thought id start my own.

i know that im going out on a limb here.

a number of times ive hesitated before submitting a post or response.

Max Divergent

For me, I think science has a clear answer on HOW life got here, but not WHY (not yet, anyhow). There are better answers on that deeper question from those with more spiritual outlooks (although I don't beleive in God myself).

Max

26

Picketing Duluth Georgia convention

by Junction-Guy in

jw
friends

i believe i finally found the perfect venue for me to picket, duluth ga, which is just outside of atlanta.the conventions there are the 2nd and 3rd weekend in august.

i know absolutley no one in georgia and there are no chances i could run into any family members there.

there are a couple of conventions before then in s.c. and johnson city tennessee, however for various reasons-monetary and otherwise i am choosing georgia.

Max Divergent

Aaron2 - If they're happy, that's fine. I was very unhappy, but felt under extreme pressure to pretend to myself and everyone else that I was one of the 'happiest people on earth' TM . How many JW's are really happy? I don't know about LDS, but I'm very sure many, many JW's are very miserable becuase of the tennants of their religion and the guilt and fear tactics used to manipulate them into staying an being a part of the thing.

The JW's train people to campaign constantly to change peoples religion so as to bring 'improvments' to their lives - it's hardly suprising that once people see through the nonsense that they reverse the focus of the campaign and fight back - JW's used to do a lot of picketing, including of churches on Sundays.

I don't know how effective/counter-productive picketing might be, I personaly probably wouldn't do it. But the sight of the picketers did stick in my JW mind, and sites like this and others helped me accept that there was happiness outside the JW's.

Max

28

Belief-O-Matic says I'm a Mormon

by rocketman in

i took the "belief-o-matic" survey at beliefnet yesterday, and it looks like i am a mormon.

the survey matches your beliefs on various matters to the creeds of the world's religions and assigns a percentage.

i was 100% church of jesus christ of latter-day saints.

Max Divergent

Well, I'm OK... I think...

1.	Unitarian Universalism (100%)

2. Secular Humanism (98%) 3. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (89%) 4. Liberal Quakers (87%) 5. Nontheist (79%) 6. Theravada Buddhism (74%) 7. Neo-Pagan (73%) 8. Bahá'í Faith (66%) 9. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (58%) 10. Taoism (58%) 11. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (54%) 12. Reform Judaism (52%) 13. New Age (51%) 14. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (43%) 15. New Thought (43%) 16. Orthodox Quaker (37%) 17. Sikhism (37%) 18. Mahayana Buddhism (36%) 19. Scientology (36%) 20. Jehovah's Witness (28%) 21. Eastern Orthodox (19%) 22. Islam (19%) 23. Jainism (19%) 24. Orthodox Judaism (19%) 25. Roman Catholic (19%) 26. Seventh Day Adventist (15%) 27. Hinduism (7%)

68

Is there proof of Evolution out there? help needed

by trumangirl in

i've faded, but i still would like to have faith in a creator/god.

but i am really not sure if my belief in god is the result of being brought up a jw and being stuck with a particular world-view.

the best thing i can do is challenge myself by reading some material that explains proof of the evolution, but i have not seen anything that does this yet, i've only seen explanations of the theory, not the proof.

Max Divergent

Richard Dawkins' The Blind Watchmaker is fantastic, I only got through the first third of the book (the science was over my head after that) but it resolved a lot of stuff in my mind.

The way the WT describes evolution makes it sound a fanciful and silly 'theory', but (whether we evolved or not) what they portray as evolution is not what science describes it as.

For example, they say in the blue creation book if you put a dismantled watch in a box and shake it all about for a zillion years, you'll never get chance events resulting in the rebuilding of the watch - so how could amino acids evolve into life by chance?

But the watch analogy is false becuase there's only one pre-determined way the parts of a watch can go together to work. Also, if two bits that shoud go together in a proper assembly of the watch did so by a chance, the same chance forces can take them apart again just as easily.

But life is much more complex than a watch - it can go together many, many ways and when the right biological things start to happen they tend to stay intact and propogate. That means a random set of events can start to actually get things happening towards building life, given A LOT OF TIME - all the errors are discarded, most of the good results are retained and propogated.

All up, I reckoned that if the WTS resorted to false arguments to critisise evolution, then they were probably on weak ground discussing the physical realities of it all. There's also a line by line critique of the blue creation book online somewhere - it destroys the WTS's credibility on creation.

Enjoy.

Max

25

Elder tells me that Governing Body moved to Walkill to escape terrorism

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

i was talking to an elder the other day, and he told me that the governing body had all moved to walkill to because jehovah wouldn't let them be destroyed.. but, i thought, weren't some of the gb in walkill anyway?

and if this is the case, why would they build that massive residential complex in the dumbo area?

are bethelites expendable if a terrorist attack did happen?.

Max Divergent

Ummm... what is DUMBO?

I've stood under the Brooklyn Bridge and seen WTS Central from accross the river, but been no closer...

(I had to walk past a KH near the bridge and a dog run to get that view.... does that count for anything?)

Max

3

Vale: an athiest politician

by Max Divergent in

jw
friends

most politicians portray themselves as believers... but today one government leader got some credit... he was an athiest and his funeral wasn't in a church or cathederal... it was at local concert hall - no god, no hymns, no prayers... a true athiest funeral of an athiest politician... .

according to the report 'in keeping with mr bacon's wishes, today's funeral service was not religious but one of music and celebration.

what a man!!!

Max Divergent

Dorothy, it was in the Land of Oz... Tasmania to be precise... Down there they have lions and tasssie tiggers and iron men... and athiests as Premiers. According to another report at www.news.com.au:

'There has never been a state funeral like it. Held in a concert hall, rather than a cathedral, in a reflection of Bacon's atheism, it rung to his chosen music of Pink Floyd, Bob Dylan, the Byrds, Shostakovich and Tom Waits....

In his eulogy, Paul Lennon, who took over as Tasmanian Premier in February after Bacon was diagnosed with inoperable lung cancer, recalled that his mate loved the North Hobart and Essendon football clubs and "had a healthy dislike of Collingwood and Collingwood supporters [which is proper thinking for a rational Australian - Max].

He said Bacon had left his adopted home - he was originally a Victorian - more confident, more tolerant, more progressive and stronger.

The funeral began to Pink Floyd's On the Turning Away:

"Feel the new wind of change

On the wings of the night

No more turning away

From the weak and the weary"

Bacon's casket, on the stage, framed by the Tasmanian Symphony Orchestra, was set with flowers: rosemary for remembrance, orchids for his father who loved them and died when Bacon was still a child, Tasmanian blue gum, lavender for cleansing, sage for healing, ivy for continual growth and roses for love.

Bacon's widow, Honey, received a standing ovation. She remembered a man who was always "Just Jim".

....... and so on go the tributes....

Max

3

Vale: an athiest politician

by Max Divergent in

jw
friends

most politicians portray themselves as believers... but today one government leader got some credit... he was an athiest and his funeral wasn't in a church or cathederal... it was at local concert hall - no god, no hymns, no prayers... a true athiest funeral of an athiest politician... .

according to the report 'in keeping with mr bacon's wishes, today's funeral service was not religious but one of music and celebration.

what a man!!!

Max Divergent

Most politicians portray themselves as believers... but today one government leader got some credit... he was an athiest and his funeral wasn't in a church or cathederal... it was at local Concert Hall - no God, no hymns, no prayers... a true athiest funeral of an athiest politician...

According to the report 'In keeping with Mr Bacon's wishes, today's funeral service was not religious but one of music and celebration.'

What a man!!!

Max - who, unlike Jim, is not a Maoist, but still sometimes wonders what an athiest's funeral looks like... well, this one looked like a lot of fun...

12

Gene simmons comments and Australian "vilification laws"

by avishai in

jw
friends

does australia have freedom of speech?

what are vilification laws?.

my question is, what is wrong with his comments?

Max Divergent

Mmm... lets have a look...

The site might be potentially liable as the Act has an extraterritorial provision at s8(2)(b). That means Victoria may prosecute for acts committed outside Victoria if the effect of the act is felt in Victoria and they can get a hold of the culprit. So, probably, a complaint is possible if a breach of the Act can be demonstrated - but the Act is for really serious hate stuff (think Nazi), not people blowing off steam amongst peers and like minded people as happens here.

Also, the site is well moderated so the owners probably have protection under s27(4) as they've taken steps to prevent that stuff, and also there are exceptions at s11 to provde for democratic free speech including legitimate discussion. Also, enforcment would be hard as I doubt the UK would extridite Simon becuase Farkel or someone posted some cutting remark on JWD!!!!

So, no... Simon and posters are probably safe but there is potential for problems if they read the plans here ~~for bombing the Assemb~~... nah, they might take that the wrong way :-)... so long as it dosn't become a real hate site and noone's hatching plans for really bad stuff, then there shouldn't be any issue at all.

Cheers, Max - who's just exercising his mind and is probably wrong about everything above!!!!

8

Australia to decide over junk food for its kids

by ozziepost in

at a time when much of the world is starving, the next australian federal election will be fought over......................junk food ads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

here's today's news item out of the land downunder:.

labor targets junk food ads.

Max Divergent

Yeah... fair point point that there being other issues that deserve attention... but....

Putting it in other language, I think Govt has a responsibility for a well regulated market place that brings benifits to the community.

Latham is, in a way, saying that the market place has become perverted by companies using crafty tricks to capture a much bigger market share that they would have without the tricks for a food that reduces peoples health and increases sickness and is generally all-around bad in just about way. Capitalism is fine and so is fast food, but there are extremes that we don't or shouldn't allow in a free but regulated market.

You've no doubt read about the chemical make up of Maccas (et al) food and how the product develops a biological craving for it amongst habitual eaters which is reinforced by a sophisticated marketing campaign that reinfrces the phisiological stuff with well thought out psychology.

You and I might be strong enough to resist that and do fine. But others aren't and they're getting sick and fat and stupid on this food because of the way it's designed. That means the economy relies on an increasingly fat and sluggsh and sick work force, and that's bad for us all.

To limit the advertising on this food and to put it under scrutiny and encorage moderate use of it is, I think, somthing a Govt should put it's mind to and Govt is big enough to deal with many, many issues all at once...

I don't think we have a choice between developing the third world and dealing with food that makes us sick at home - we can do both.

Max - who loves fast food, but knows it's BAD!! :-)